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Post by caltino on Jun 3, 2015 15:57:27 GMT -5
It seems that whenever players are spending points, they always build mech units. The game ends up much less a mix of combined forces and more a mech vs mech game. That's not surprising- mechs are much more interesting, flexible and cool.
2 loaded light mechs (16 pts) can fire 8 weapons and have a total armor of 80 vs 3 light (15 pts) vehicles firing 3 times with 90 armor. It seems the only thing vehicles have over mechs is more combined armor for a given total point value. But since they have one weapon, once that is gone, they are useless. So with vehicles, there's really a 40% chance to take one out of action, not only 20% from destruction.
It seems like unless the scenario specifies the forces, this will continue to be an issue.
Are we missing something? What are some reasons for picking vehicles/infantry rather than mechs? Are there things that only non-mechs do, or things that benefit large numbers of units, which is the advantage of a non-mech group?
How can I make them more interesting- through house rules or something else?
By the way, what's the point of a turret on a vehicle? A vehicle with a turret only has one weapon, and since it change direction before it fires, it will always be pointing at what it wants to shoot. Static mounts give more options at no disadvantage?
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Post by Dagger on Jun 3, 2015 19:03:28 GMT -5
First, Mech Attack was never meant to be a tournament game where you need to min/max the stats to find the optimum build out. It's meant to catch the flavor of Mech combat in a more casual setting.
Second, that doesn't mean the game doesn't need to be reasonably balanced. I wanted to keep the focus on Mechs, with vehicles and troops being an option to spend extra Bp on or as units to fill specific functions based on the particular scenario of the game. But I did see the need to balance the relative "combat value" of the units... so the draft 2.0 rules do allow vehicles to mount additional weapons; making them more on par with Mechs Bp-wise (but intentionally not quite equal); and allows you to stat out MW clix figures more easily.
Turrets - they allow you to fire in any direction and still control where your rear arc is facing. They allow you to better protect your rear arc.
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Post by caltino on Jun 4, 2015 5:55:53 GMT -5
Just to be clear, this isn't about min-maxing to optimize builds and win. Mechs are simply cooler and better to play with, with more interesting options each turn. Even in a household setting, players have no reason to use points on vehicles, because they are not as fun or interesting. But when everyone's got Mechs, they are not really special anymore. Having other units to provide contrast is very important for the flavor of the game, besides making it a richer game overall.
If you don't mind opinions, here's mine on making vehicles more viable/interesting: Make them do things that Mechs do not. The game is set up so that the same weapons are available to mechs and vehicles and infantry alike (aside from class), which already makes them all samey. Simply mounting more guns will just make them mini-mechs, which is undesirable. We all want Mechs to be special.
But if infantry can hide and vehicles can form groups and gain benefits from having large numbers and so on then they will be distinct in their capabilities. Or if they have special equipment that they only can use. They'll offer interesting gameplay that someone who has only/mostly mechs will not have.
I'm looking forward to seeing 2.0. Any general ideas about when?
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Post by Dagger on Jun 4, 2015 17:05:07 GMT -5
Right you are... that was part of my reasoning for giving Troops a 360 degree firing arc (no weak rear arc). We just need to flesh out the unique qualities of each unit type.
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Post by chicagowiz on Jun 15, 2015 10:32:33 GMT -5
caltino - base it on your scenario. The Special Ops guys have to infiltrate a key terrain feature and set up a LRM or SRM missile battery so that they can be the first to shoot at the convoy of Heavy/Assault Mechs coming at a smaller, lighter group later on. Have it a tank/vehicle v tank/vehicle battle with infantry for first few turns. If the attackers hold the hill/fort/crossroads, set up the missile battery and then have the big stompies come in... Grab a wargaming book or look at some AARs and substitute cavalry reinforcements with Mechs, but have your vehicles/infantry the first guys there. OR have them as the guys coming in to do salvage. After the main battle is over. Have wounded/beat-up 'Mechs left with fewer weapons... and the tanks and trucks that want to cart off the valuable parts....
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Post by Dagger on Jun 15, 2015 21:40:06 GMT -5
If the scenario requires you to control key points... maybe Troops are the only units that can control those points.
A fun house rule might be to have an Engineer Troop unit that can perform field expedient repair on Mechs when in base-to-base contact; maybe restore 5 armor points if they pass a skill check.
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Post by chicagowiz on Jun 16, 2015 8:39:59 GMT -5
Yep, those are good, Dagger. Another thought... instead of peanut butter in the chocolate, put the chocolate in the peanut butter. Make it an all infantry/vehicle scenario - or a vehicle/infantry scenario where you have to survive/avoid/get by the 'Mech or two... |
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Post by WaffleM on Jun 16, 2015 20:52:31 GMT -5
Another idea would be to have a "David vs Goliath" scenario where an invading force of a few mechs is being repelled by rebels consisting of only infantry and a maybe a vehicle or two. Placed in an urban setting of narrow streets and buildings the infantry may be able to hide and out maneuver the mechs, only to have their hiding places demolished by the mechs' superior firepower.
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Techpriest
New Member
Looking for players in KC
Posts: 34
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Post by Techpriest on Jun 18, 2015 7:45:32 GMT -5
Like others have said, vehicles and infantry are great if the scenario calls for them. If the scenario is "Last Man Standing" on a fairly open table then I just choose mechs, that is what they are best at. If I am defending a position vehicles and infantry are cheap ways to get extra guns on the table. 5 infantry units in cover add 10 guns to defend my position for the cost of 1 light mech. Infantry can enter buildings and gain protection. In a city or other cramped area the small vehicles and infantry also have the advantage of maneuverability. We also play scenarios where you have to escort a convoy of vehicles so that player has to have X points in vehicles. See how many points make it across the table then switch places.
I do like the idea of vehicle groups. Two to four vehicles that can be activated as one unit, pick one target and gain a bonus to attack. Must stay within 2" of another member. This is how infantry is described in the game.
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eilif
Junior Member
Posts: 72 
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Post by eilif on Jun 15, 2016 14:43:58 GMT -5
This is an old topic but a useful one. What has worked for us recently is to make it so that objectives (buildings in our case) can only be held by troops. This worked well for us at our Adepticon scenario... armorgridgames.proboards.com/thread/264/large-scale-mech-attack-adepticon...and then again last month when we played a similar scenario using our usual rebased 10mm Mechwarrior clix figs. IIRC, the game setup and details were: -With 6 objectives -6 turns -3 player game With each starting in a corner of a 3x4'ish table -each player running about 3 mechs, 2 apc's 1 tank and 4 infantry -Infantry respawn at the board edge when destroyed) -We also had a few minor additions regarding # of units allowed in a building (one of each team up to 2), entering buildings, a -2 when shooting at a unit in a building, etc but otherwise mostly by the book I think the scoring was aproximately: -25 points for the first to seize an objective -25 points for ending the game in control of an objective. -Points based on BP for destroying tanks and vehicles. -No points for destroying infantry. It's a fairly simple setup, but in practice it's quite elegant as it prioritizes taking and holding terrain and makes infantry essential. Suddenly you find yourself picking targets based on entirely different criteria. You still want to kill mechs, but more to protect your objectives and infantry than just for the sake of points. Also, at 6 turns (or maybe it was 8?...) the game wraps up in a good amount of time without breaking down into a slugfest of repeatedly blasting away at buildings to kill the infantry inside. Further, it makes vehicles -especially APC's- very useful in moving and protecting infantry. Finally, even tanks that usually don't have a prayer of taking out a medium or heavy mech find a useful role hunting APC's and blasting out troops. |
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