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Post by Parduz on Apr 14, 2010 10:14:42 GMT -5
Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, i'm unsure where it should go.
I've finished to print some sheets, and i plan to start cutting the things this night.
Anyway, i have some suggestions about the minis.
1) I have a friend which, while not colorblind, he have some difficult discerning some color variation: usually he can't see the differences between some pastel tones. I'm pretty sure he will have troubles between the Tan and the Green tones of the miniatures... i'm unsure about the gray ones. So, my suggestion is to made a set of red and blue miniatures (or other well contrasting colors). The will be less "real", but should help to see them clearly.
2) This is more a matter of taste than anything else: i've printed only the gray weapons: i like more to have them without "faction paint", and it allows me to print a bit less pages...but they may need a stronger contrast between the various "parts".
So, i'd like to have a "neutral set" of weapons, with "different colors" for different kind of weapons (as example, all lasers with fluo yellow barrells, all missiles with Red missile tips....). This should help getting the weapons mounted in a mech at the first eyesight, and will allow to print less pages (if you don't need a whole bunch of weapons).
I hope you can get what i mean, it is somewhat hard to explain.
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Post by tugunmojo on Apr 14, 2010 18:18:25 GMT -5
The set comes with some minis that are uncolored. If you have Photoshop (which is what I have used), Gimp (which is free), or any other similar software, it is actually pretty easy to do you own colors. This way, you could do you own factions and even color some specialized units. Just save your file under a different name so you can reprint as needed and not lose your original file. Another way to do this is to print the uncolored versions and then color them in with markers, colored pens, or colored pencils. Then just cut them out. If you are playing the game with children, this is a great way to get them involved in making their very own units. Here is an example of what I was able to do with my Photoshop program. In fact, it is the first time trying. You will notice that the pilot's colors are different than the ones in the set. I just added color to the uncolored minis and printed it off. armorgridgames.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=memebergallery&action=display&thread=36 |
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Post by WaffleM on Apr 14, 2010 21:28:24 GMT -5
After we released the first set, I thought it would be cool to do a Red, White, and Blue set. The Red and Blue would just be decorative, but the White would be snow terrain units. This is just one more thing on my list...
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Post by tugunmojo on Apr 14, 2010 23:25:54 GMT -5
The 4th of July is not that far away . . . ;D
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Post by Parduz on Apr 15, 2010 6:42:46 GMT -5
Well, my skills are all in vector drawing... so i will not try to recolor the uncolored minis as they are (in the PDFs, at least) all bitmaps. About "non camo" colors, i recall the Mechwarrior PC Game: there was a lot of nice "camo" paints, most of them was very colorfull. Snow camo apart, you may even say that a particular color fits the nature of an alien planet  More, i always find a bit strange that a thing like a Mech need camouflage .... so, for me, any Tiger/Zebra texture works as well as red, green and blue  |
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Post by Parduz on Apr 29, 2010 4:43:07 GMT -5
Ok, i keep writing in this thread 'cause i will write some suggestions.... admins: if you think i'm doing wrong pls move the post/thread where you think it fit. I want to write a sort of "review" while i'm in the process of building the game, which will be completed by a "gaming review" and finally posted (cleaned and complete) as a full review, here and at BGG. Writing it while i'm building helps me to not loose idea and opinins (my memory is fading ) and maybe i can have correction/suggestions about building it. I was forced to discharge the first sheets i printed: the ink of my inkjet printer did not attach to the paper (which was not of the same brand of the printer), so i ended up with a "ghost mech", with faint colors.... I then catch an offer of italian online printing service: 30 photos 11x15cm for free, just shipping costs, for a new subscriber. As i felt that the heavy mech was really too big (and i plan to play on Heroscape hexes, so size matters, at least a bit), and 'cause 11x15cm is not so much surface, i have exported all the minis to Tiffs, and scaled down them to a 75% (changing the ppi from 300 to 450). Then i played "tetris", and i've managed to have two factions (tan and green) composed by 1 hvy, 2 med, 4 light mech, 2 vehicles per type and 12 infantry units in about 20 photo sheets. Weapons and tokens took the remaining. So finally i have that squads for 2 euros  Now the building part. About building little things, I am below the "average joe" (or "average Mario, perhaps ) : i have no skills at all, i gave up painting miniatures 'cause i just don't have the "hands" to make that job, and even building paper model (full 3D) is a pain: i don't find it amusing, and i never obtain the desired "clean" result (what is the cause and what is the effect i'm still unsure). The mechs here are not 3D models, instead they are more similars to the wizkids pirates ships. Basically they requires just straight cuts and edging, and a couple of very small drops of superglue just to fix them in place, so i judged it was somewhat i can manage. Now, having the mechs scaled down make them a bit fiddly, but not so much (the heavy is now as big as the "full-scale" medium, more or less). ... MAN! That mechs needs a WHOLE LOT of time. I've built a light and a heavy, they took each 2.5 hours to get finished.... i know i'm slow, and that time amount includes a pause of 10-15 minuts 'cause my hands started to wave after so much "micro-cuts" (i will explain what i mean below), anyway it seems to me a LOT of time. I'm determined to PLAY this game (i love the them and the look) and so i will continue to build them, otherwise i will give up immediatly. Where i find difficulties? Or better: where all this time goes? in the "inside cuts", which causes a lot of "micro-cuts". You usually cut around the figure, and that are what i call the "outside cuts". Each time the figure "surrounds" a piece of blank paper, you have "Inside cuts". On the mech you have "inside cuts" between the legs and the main body, between the knees and the feets ('cause the legs are "angled") and in the tiny space between the body and the "arms". To remove that white spaces, you start "micro cutting", which means you just need to cut 2-3mm at times... it takes a lot. More, that parts are HARD to be edged: you need a very thin marker, and anyway some corners are too little to allow the tip of the marker to reach them. To me, the mech "building design" should be redone (not the "aesthetic design", which i like a lot). Imho, the legs should be separated from the body and glued to it usin the "trapezoidal" tabs which now are glued after flding. More, the legs should be composed by 3 parts: the foot, the thigh and the ....don't know the word... the part that goes from the knee to the ankle. The "joints" should be "overlappable", so don't have to do so much "inside cuts": i can cut them, edge them, and the glueing the three parts.... as a side effect, the will be also poseable (hope you can get what i mean... i'll try to make a picture if what i'm saying have no means). I'm just here, right now: 2 mechs built in 5 hours, and the nightmare to have all the remaining still to be done.... |
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Post by Dagger on Apr 29, 2010 9:07:47 GMT -5
Sounds like you got a really good deal on the printing. I'll add that to my list of reasons why I wish I lived in Italy...(grin).
I know what you mean about the cuts. The Mechs are a challenge for someone who is new to paper modelling. The good news is, the learning curve is not very steep... I'm sure after just a little bit of practice you'll get MUCH faster. Here are some tips too:
1) The easiest way to trim the models is with a hobby knife. It helps to have a cutting mat too... something underneath the model that you don't mind scratching up. Those inside cuts are much easier with a hobby knife than a pair of scissors.
2) I found that you do not have to exactly follow the black outline when you are cutting. My cuts are more like a helicopter flying close to the gound... it goes up and down with the terrain but doesn't follow the ground exactly, just pretty close. So while the edges of the Mech are sharp and detailed corners, my cuts are more like gentle curves. After I cut out the figure, I go back with a black felt-tip marker (we call them Sharpies) and black out any little white spots still showing and go around the edges as well. Once the model is finished, it will be the Mech you focus on and not the black outline so much.
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Post by Parduz on Apr 29, 2010 9:34:21 GMT -5
Sounds like you got a really good deal on the printing. I'll add that to my list of reasons why I wish I lived in Italy...(grin). Well, apart from that "one shot" offer, there we have hard times and i feel there's not so much things that should attract peoples to live here... without offense for anyone, i'm starting feeling like a mexican, if Mexico was "travelling" toward an Argentina-like economy crash... but this is OT. I know what you mean about the cuts. The Mechs are a challenge for someone who is new to paper modelling. The good news is, the learning curve is not very steep... I'm sure after just a little bit of practice you'll get MUCH faster. Here are some tips too: About your tips, i laready know... i'm not so new to paper minis, i'm just not so able. I use a surgery scalpel, which is the more "powerful" thing i have found to cut (thick) paper, and i know the "edging trick"... i don't follow any single dent, but also i don't like to have a "cloud shape" with a mech inside I don't know if i'm legitimate to pose this question, so i ask hoping i'm not crossing the "artist ownership" line: any chance to have the vector art of the mechs? i'd like to show you how i see some design mod will make easier building the mechs for ppl like me... i would also like to purpose you some "new unit" concept, but this will be later, after my first plays. |
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Post by WaffleM on Apr 29, 2010 9:58:24 GMT -5
I think part of the problems that you may be having at building the miniatures could be due to the resizing. Printing them at 75% will increase the difficulty because all the designs become tighter, lines become thinner, and cuts become trickier. And since the thickness of the paper doesn't change, the folds are more difficult because the parts you are folding are now much smaller. Try printing a test page of minis at full scale and see if they are easier to build.
I've also found that using matte photo paper over 110# card stock really helped refine my cutting skills. The slightly thinner paper just makes cutting that much easier. Plus the print quality is superior.
I'm not sure what could have caused your original print problem, but it sounds like a printer/paper issue. I've only had the ink not adhere to the page once and that was because I was printing on the wrong side of glossy paper. What a mess that made! The ink practically dripped off the page! Is your paper double sided and have you tried printing on the reverse side?
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Post by Parduz on Apr 29, 2010 12:04:44 GMT -5
I think part of the problems that you may be having at building the miniatures could be due to the resizing [...] Try printing a test page of minis at full scale and see if they are easier to build. That was my first try (the one with the color faded away). I gave up when i saw my finger colored, but half of the figure was already done and my difficulties was really the same. I agree. My card was 280gr/mm (dunno how to convert to your weight system) and it is really strong. The card i got from that free-print is glossy and less strong, so instead of glue i use a piece of bi-adhesive tape for med & hvy mechs: it provide a strong support, but it is still "easy" to cut. I can't be wrong with my photopaper: the printing side is really different. My ink did'nt wash away. It just dried and come off as dust when touched, leaving just a faint image.... i think that the needed chemical reaction between the sheet surface and the ink did not happens. First time i see a thing like that... as the ink is branded (not refills) i guess that is the paper that is not for that brand. --- I want to thank you both for the prompt answers. It is not the first "indie", P&P game i buy, but not all the producers are so kind and ready to help. Thanks! |
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Post by Tomahawk on Apr 29, 2010 13:00:55 GMT -5
Parduz, you and I are sort of in the same boat. I, too, am new to paper modeling. However, I went ahead and printed the mechs at full size on 67# light card stock in my inkjet printer. I also am using surgical scalpels (thanks for the tip!). My first mech was a nightmare, but by the time I made through a couple more, they're not looking too bad.
The 67# paper (which is what I had on-hand) seems stiff enough for everything to hold its shape without being too thick to fold. I know we've both had trouble with the hip joints, but, again, after a couple I'm not intimidated by them any more.
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Post by Parduz on Apr 29, 2010 13:16:20 GMT -5
I know we've both had trouble with the hip joints, but, again, after a couple I'm not intimidated by them any more. eheh i let the scalpel do his job: i cut the leg out, and then i glue it in position without having to handle the tight fold |
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